[rfc-i] draft-flanagan-rfc-framework-02 composition tools

Joe Touch touch at isi.edu
Fri Oct 31 23:58:22 PDT 2014




> On Oct 31, 2014, at 4:57 PM, Nico Williams <nico at cryptonector.com> wrote:
> 
>> On Fri, Oct 31, 2014 at 6:32 PM, Joe Touch <touch at isi.edu> wrote:
>> Not WYSIWYG.
> 
> I thought you could edit in the right pane and squish the left pane so
> you needn't see the nroff noise.

You can but the left side just ignores it. 

So you basically have to edit source to get anything to happen. 

>  Then it's pretty close to WYSIWYG.
> No?

I'm beginning to wonder if you have used word. :-)


> 
>> Which again expects me to edit source (markdown, in that case), and
>> again be inside the compile/render loop.
> 
> Well, even Word will render differently when you save as HTML, change
> paper size, ...

Only when I make those changes and when I do it seamlessly updates.  I don't change source and don't need to trigger a compile. 

>>> or LyX w/ lyx2rfc?
>> 
>> The info here suggests the same sort of loop:
>> https://github.com/nicowilliams/lyx2rfc
> 
> It's WYSIWYM (the M is for "mean"), and pretty close to WYSIWYG.

Light years apart.

> I don't see the value in WYSIWYG: sure, it takes me out of the
> compile/render loop, but then it puts me in charge of every last bit
> of formatting.  Ugh, no thanks!

Word isn't wysiwyg either.  You make a line Heading1, not 16pt bold. 

The way Heading1 appears depends on the template, so it doesn't have to change format if you don't want. 

> Thanks for your answers though: it reminded me of why I don't favor
> Word for I-Ds/RFCs.

I tried your suggestions.  Have you tried mine?

>> Am I really the only person besides Stewart who thinks it's odd to have
>> to *ever* touch source for a document I'm writing? Or to be involved in
>> a manual source-edit/compile/render loop?
> 
> Speaking only for myself, I don't want to be in the business of
> minding margins, font sizes, tab stops, other indentation white space,
> making everything just so.  

You don't unless you want to.  Just like xml.

> I don't want to use templates that work
> until you screw up something and good luck recovering.

I've never had word generate a doc that didn't "compile". That happens with xml or latex within the first five minutes. 

>  Not for me,
> thanks.
> 
> With LyX (or markdown, or...) most everything is trivial.
> 
> The hardest thing with *any* of these formats is references.  (I
> really could make lyx2rfc handle those more automatically though, and
> I might.)

That's the least of my concerns.  There are databases that help with word though. 

Joe

> The XML is also trivial enough for me, but it's just tedious for
> live-editing.  Which is why I put together lyx2rfc.
> 
> Nico
> --


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