[rfc-i] use cases for page breaking hints (digression thread)

Ted Lemon mellon at fugue.com
Mon Jun 30 13:24:22 PDT 2014


On Jun 30, 2014, at 4:12 PM, Thomas Clausen <ietf at thomasclausen.org> wrote:
> I've known Chris for many years. I could use many adjectives about him, but "Sexist" probably wouldn't even be the last on the list -- it wouldn't ever come to mind.

Thomas, I just said I didn't intend to suggest that Chris is sexist.   Nor did I say that Chris was sexist, aside from what my intent may or may not have been.   I simply remarked, in response to Chris using the masculine generic, that various IETF members are not male.   The entire subtext to which you are referring is something Chris said in response to this.   You may well disagree with my interpretation of the masculine generic as excluding women, but if you tell me that I said something I did not say, how can we have a conversation, since you are the authority for my words?

> Therefore, Chris using "he" as a gender-neutral pronoun (especially, when the English language doesn't have a gender-neutral pronoun) is a pretty good indicator that it's both accepted practice in colloquial language, and decidedly not sexist.

The fact that some person you designate as an authority on some topic believes X does not mean that X is true.   Did you read the article the link to which Tim Bray supplied?

> Your insisting that "you either shut up and agree with me -- or you go all nuclear and ask the nomcom to remove you" is not constructive.

Actually, the fact that we are continuing to discuss this is not constructive.   I've told you what I think, and I insist that I am allowed to tell you what I think.   If you want to get me to change my mind about this, you're going to have to come up with a really original argument, not the same tired old argument I've heard dozens of times before.   But this is just my opinion.   I'm not insisting that you agree with me: I'm just telling you what I think.

> And, FWIW, you're wrong about gender-neutral pronouns and articles in Danish: using the gender-neutral pronoun ("den") to address a person in Danish would be a grave insult...

That's unfortunate--discovering that pronoun was a bright spot in this insane waste of time.

I do not wish to discourage you from continuing to speak your mind if you feel it is constructive to do so, but one of my foibles as an AD is that I feel that when an IETF participant addresses a legitimate question to me, I am obliged to answer.   So if you wish to get in the last word, please at least grant me permission not to respond.



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