[rfc-i] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-flanagan-plaintext-00.txt

Dearlove, Christopher (UK) chris.dearlove at baesystems.com
Tue Jun 24 05:45:24 PDT 2014


No, that's not useful.

My question would be, will PDF do the required tasks - printable without things like tables broken, include line numbers for access and reference?

If so, that would become the new useful version.

-- 
Christopher Dearlove
Senior Principal Engineer, Communications Group
Communications, Networks and Image Analysis Capability
BAE Systems Advanced Technology Centre
West Hanningfield Road, Great Baddow, Chelmsford, CM2 8HN, UK
Tel: +44 1245 242194 |  Fax: +44 1245 242124
chris.dearlove at baesystems.com | http://www.baesystems.com

BAE Systems (Operations) Limited
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Registered in England & Wales No: 1996687


-----Original Message-----
From: Thomas Clausen [mailto:ietf at thomasclausen.org] 
Sent: 24 June 2014 13:42
To: Dearlove, Christopher (UK)
Cc: Julian Reschke; Paul Kyzivat; rfc-interest at rfc-editor.org
Subject: Re: [rfc-i] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-flanagan-plaintext-00.txt

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On Jun 24, 2014, at 14:38, Dearlove, Christopher (UK) <chris.dearlove at baesystems.com> wrote:

> Section 3.3 of that RFC does say this.

I just got to about there, too. That, quite frankly, suxx.

But, OK, to be productive, I propose a compromise that will satisfy both those adept at section numbers, and those adept at page numbers:

	"an automatic, monotonically increasing section number, starting with the digit 1,
	 MUST inserted every 58 lines of text (including figures, whitespaces, etc) of the
	 document."

Or, is it an "RFC6949 considered harmful" RFC?

Thomas

> --
> Christopher Dearlove
> Senior Principal Engineer, Communications Group Communications, 
> Networks and Image Analysis Capability BAE Systems Advanced Technology 
> Centre West Hanningfield Road, Great Baddow, Chelmsford, CM2 8HN, UK
> Tel: +44 1245 242194 |  Fax: +44 1245 242124 
> chris.dearlove at baesystems.com | http://www.baesystems.com
> 
> BAE Systems (Operations) Limited
> Registered Office: Warwick House, PO Box 87, Farnborough Aerospace 
> Centre, Farnborough, Hants, GU14 6YU, UK Registered in England & Wales 
> No: 1996687
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Thomas Clausen [mailto:ietf at thomasclausen.org]
> Sent: 24 June 2014 13:15
> To: Julian Reschke
> Cc: Dearlove, Christopher (UK); Paul Kyzivat; 
> rfc-interest at rfc-editor.org
> Subject: Re: [rfc-i] Fwd: New Version Notification for 
> draft-flanagan-plaintext-00.txt
> 
> ----------------------! WARNING ! ---------------------- This message originates from outside our organisation, either from an external partner or from the internet.
> Consider carefully whether you should click on any links, open any attachments or reply.
> Follow the 'Report Suspicious Emails' link on IT matters for instructions on reporting suspicious email messages.
> --------------------------------------------------------
> 
> On Jun 24, 2014, at 14:02, Julian Reschke <julian.reschke at gmx.de> wrote:
> 
>> On 2014-06-24 13:41, Thomas Clausen wrote:
>>> That does, if you will excuse my violent disagreement, appear like 
>>> an enormous step backwards in usability: both when writing a 
>>> specification, when writing an implementation from a specification 
>>> (especially if actually commenting code), or when reviewing a 
>>> specification for somebody else, the ability to reference "Page XX 
>>> line Y" is rather convenient, almost necessary - especially, when 
>>> collaborating with folks using different output media (of which 
>>> paper remains an important one, for various reasons..)
>>> 
>>> I haven't printed an RFC or an I-D in a decade - and yet, find both page numbers and line numbers to be paramount.
>>> 
>>> With my various set of co-authors, while I do *try* to point to "enumerated sections", we almost always end up "counting lines on a page" at some point in time. I note that other SDOs actually have printed line-numbers in the margin of (at least, their working/intermediate) documents.
>> 
>> My experience is the opposite; I always end up linking to section numbers or paragraphs.
>> 
> 
> Excellent. That goes to show, then, that I was right to not propose "let's remove section numbers" as a solution. 
> 
> I had a hunch that they were useful for someone, and I didn't want to step on those "someones", even though I personally use page numbers much, much more.
> 
>>> While I have deep respect for the "other goals" that you cite, and I agree that we should support different output devices, I respectfully submit that that has nothing to do with the argument being made.
>>> 
>>> I also respectfully submit that those "other goals" perhaps are given too high a priority here, and I wonder who set those priorities?
>> 
>> You may want to read <http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6949> which was published over a year ago, and which represents the outcome of a very long discussion.
> 
> Thanks, I shall. I appreciate that pointer. I fell onto this list by accident, and so I may not have seen all that has happened, and am not sure that I saw that very long discussion. 
> 
> Not having read that document yet, if RFC6949 states "we MUST remove page numbers from RFCs" then I'd submit that somebody needs to - and, rather urgently - publish an "RFC6949 considered harmful" RFC.
> 
> Thomas
> 
>> Best regards, Julian
>> 
> 
> 
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