[rfc-i] a possible refinement to draft-iab-rfc-editor-model

Brian E Carpenter brian.e.carpenter at gmail.com
Tue Apr 14 15:53:30 PDT 2009


Hi Leslie,

On 2009-04-14 03:48, Leslie Daigle wrote:
> 
> 
> Lots of interesting discussion in the thread that I'd like to let gel
> before commenting (if at all), but one particular point I'd like to
> drill down on:
> 
> 
>> But really my bottom line is one sentence in Leslie's draft:
>>
>> "The RSAG is chartered by the IAB."
>>
>> Not if it advises the RSE. If it advises the RSE, the RSAG has to be
>> chartered  by the RSE. If I was the RSE (which I faithfully promise
>> will never happen), I would not accept the existence of an advisory
>> group which I didn't charter and which didn't report to me.
> 
> As a different example, the IRTF (and by extension, the IRSG) are
> chartered by the IAB.  Nevertheless, the IRSG is populated by the IRTF
> Chair, and I'm quite clear that the IRSG advises the IRTF Chair, not the
> IAB.

Right, so let's look at the small print in BCP 8:

  "The IRTF is managed by the IRTF Chair in consultation with the
   Internet Research Steering Group (IRSG).  The IRSG membership
   includes the IRTF Chair, the chairs of the various Research Group and
   possibly other individuals ("members at large") from the research
   community.

   The IRTF Chair is appointed by the IAB, the Research Group chairs are
   appointed as part of the formation of Research Groups (as detailed
   below) and the IRSG members at large are chosen by the IRTF Chair in
   consultation with the rest of the IRSG and on approval by the IAB."

A formulation like that would probably allay my concerns.

> 
> The point is:  the structure/role of the proposed committee fall under
> the IAB's oversight.  It makes sense for the IAB to charter it, and
> oversee any process of changing the charter if need be.

If the charter is very generic.

> 
> Which is NOT to say that the IAB needs to be intimately involved in the
> process of selecting its population, which I would think is the part
> that would give you heartburn.

Partly, and partly I am concerned to avoid blurring of responsibilities
as much as possible.

   Brian

> 
> Leslie.
> 
> 
> Brian E Carpenter wrote:
>> On 2009-04-12 05:57, Ray Pelletier wrote:
>>> On Apr 11, 2009, at 12:45 PM, Russ Housley wrote:
>>>
>>>> Ray:
>>>>
>>>>>>   . Name of the committee -- "Framework Committee" meant nothing
>>>>>>     to some people.  Proposed "RFC Series Advisory Group (RSAG)"
>>>>>>     (per Russ' suggestion to rfc-interest)
>>>>> The 'Advisory Group' name suggests a different governance 
>>>>> relationship
>>>>> than I think is needed.
>>>>> I would consider the group more the RFC Series Oversight Committee
>>>>> (RSOC), which I believe
>>>>> better suggests its role and responsibilities, and its position vis a
>>>>> vis the RFC Series Editor
>>>>> and the IAB better.
>>>> As a counterpoint, let me say why I suggested the name that I did.  
>>>> The IAB is already responsible for the oversight of the RFC series 
>>>> as a whole, and so it seems to me they are also responsible for the 
>>>> oversight of the RFC Series Editor.  I think that "Advisory Group" 
>>>> is more appropriate because the group is intended to help the RFC 
>>>> Series Editor by offering a broader perspective.  As Leslie said in 
>>>> here earlier message, "keeping the flame."
>>>>
>>>> I think it is important that the name of this group not be
>>>> perceived  as moving the oversight responsibility away from the
>>>> IAB.  Rather,  the group is to advise the RFC Series Editor and also
>>>> share their  perspective with the IAB as needed.
>>
>> Yes, that seems to be right.
>>> Actually I view the Group/Committee as more than an advisory role to 
>>> the RSE.  I see the RSE reporting to the Group/Committee.  
>>
>> No. Please no. The RSE already has to report on contractual matters
>> to IASA. It's very hard to imagine the RSE not having a direct liaison
>> presence in the IAB itself; in fact RFC2850 requires this.
>> I don't see why the IAB should wriggle out of its role as overseer.
>>
>> The Advisory Goup advises the RSE. Advice and oversight are very
>> different.
>>
>>> The name  would be as the IAB would view it.  I was suggesting RFC
>>> Series  Oversight Committee (RSOC) as the IAB empowering the group to
>>> perform  that function on their behalf on a day-to-day basis based on
>>> the  membership's expertise (who they appoint) with specific
>>> reporting and  approval requirements to the IAB as the IAB deems fit.
>>
>> That would be redundant. If the RSE needs 'day-to-day' oversight we
>> will be in very deep trouble. Oversight should mean regular checkpoints,
>> but that seems more like monthly or less. Why on earth can't the IAB
>> continue to do that directly? It's not a big deal.
>>> Ray
>>>
>>>> Ray, I do like the addition that you suggest at having this group 
>>>> develop job descriptions for appointed positions (these would go to 
>>>> the IAB as part of their confirmation process) and having this
>>>> group  develop Statements of Work (SOW) for contracted components
>>>> (these  would go to the IAOC for the procurement process).  If
>>>> others agree  with the SOW development, then it is a good idea that
>>>> an IAOC member  as an ex-officio member to provide an important
>>>> linkage for the  procurement.  I'm not sure it needs to be the IAOC
>>>> chair.  I think  it can be the chair or a liaison from the IAOC.
>>
>> I'm not sure about this. Again, if the group is advisory to the RSE,
>> who is executing the current SOWs, it won't necessarily be able to
>> give disinterested advice to IASA. It can certainly provide insight
>> into what is and isn't working in the current SOWs.
>>
>> But really my bottom line is one sentence in Leslie's draft:
>>
>> "The RSAG is chartered by the IAB."
>>
>> Not if it advises the RSE. If it advises the RSE, the RSAG has to be
>> chartered  by the RSE. If I was the RSE (which I faithfully promise
>> will never happen), I would not accept the existence of an advisory
>> group which I didn't charter and which didn't report to me.
>>
>>    Brian
>>
>> [Full disclosure: I am a current member of the RFC Editorial Board.]
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>> rfc-interest mailing list
>> rfc-interest at rfc-editor.org
>> http://mailman.rfc-editor.org/mailman/listinfo/rfc-interest
> 


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